5.08 - Win Today

[waschal]

I really liked the Ep.
I think ALP was amazing
The scene when Sam screemed at the guy was cool. sure she like Jack every one in the team does.
I don't think they gonna be back together. A Friend would do the same.
I love the scene between Jack/Viv and Martin. they are so cute
and the bet was a good idee.
that was really funny
I missed it at the last season. I'm so happy we have that back

[annie2000]

just watched: WOW! best so far.
ALP is indeed amazing, and he was loking sooooo sad and scared, it's so nice to show the boss can also be "weak" sometimes, not a lot of shows do that.
And poor Marty can't play pocker... huahuihuiahuiahuiahuiahuia
About Sam, she cares, as Waschal said, as much as everyone else, but probably they just used her in that scene screaming with the other guy so we can see she's not completely over Jack. Sam, one word: therapy. Hope Anne does not leave, cause if she does, not only we'd be loosing a good character, Smarty is pretty much gone. But hey, maybe I can become a full time MANNY SHIPPER!!
I liked the look upond Danny's face when he sees Jack - he was sooooooooo terrified (and you think Poppy need a haircut? What's going on on Murciano's head?!). And the way Martin seemed so reliefed when Viv said they found him.
Ooooooh, everybody's loves Jack!
Although I'd like to see her back, thank God that bitch is dead! YAY!!

[evancar]

It was enjoyable episode but nothing else. Not much realistic, but somehow different from others. ALP was amazing!

I read your posts before watching the episode, like I always do, bc I love to be warned in advance. ( that’s why I love spoilers) helps me be objective.
So, I read about your j/s comments, but when I watched the ep, I thought it wasn’t such a big deal. Honestly I think we read too much into it, and Sam isn’t more concerned than the rest of the team. After reading your thoughts I was expecting something more personal in the last j/s scene, and when I saw it I thought: so, that was it?? it could have been danny or martin instead of jack, and I would have thought the same about the scene: just plain friendly.
The pool thing, was a funny bit. I think at the end, they just wanted to reveal who won.
Jack appears in such a shape and she doesn’t even ask, hey are you ok?

When Elena tells sam joking abt the pool ‘you’re the only one that is backing him’ I expected sam to say sth in jack's favour that could indicate sth more. but instead, no, she was just going for the "long shot" ( and she was being honest i think). I wouldn’t b happy if I was a j/s.

Well, maybe I’m all wrong, and there’s a lot more hidden in this. You never know with WAT, but frankly I don’t think so.
That’s my point of view anyway

[copycat]

Wow. Reading all your comments is making me think maybe I should watch this episode again. Only, I don't feel much like doing that, because I REALLY didn't like it... I actually think it was one of the worst episodes of the season, and for me that's saying something. I think in part my feelings can be explained by All The Sinners, Saints, which I thought was a GREAT episode. I had my hopes up for something of similar quality, and I just don't feel that I got that.

I found Jack's kidnapping pretty stupid. Maybe if they'd had two hours to develop the plot it might have done something for me. As it was, it just seemed like the writers had taken things from a lot of different kidnapping/abduction/torture movies and thrown all the things they liked from all those movies into 10-15 minutes. Cynthia straddling Jack was particularly jarring to me. It just made no sense. I guess maybe that can be read as chemistry, but to me it seemed very out of place, because there was absolutely nothing building up to that. (Them making out in the hallway when Jack was too drugged up to be able to stand doesn't count, if you ask me.) It was the same with her nail gun. Just, 30 seconds of questioning him and "Pow!" Why? When she pulled out the plastic sheet and prepared to shoot him I actually laughed out loud.

They were too much in a hurry, and it seemed like they were just rushing through a very formulaic plot and expecting the viewers to imagine the scenes they didn't have time for. For this to work for me they needed two things: More time to develop the story, and a psychological level that would make me care just the littlest bit. Sure, I don't like Jack, and I like it when he gets hurt (until I remember that he has magic healing powers and no matter how badly he gets hurt, it never means that I will get my Jack-free episode), but they didn't even give me a chance to feel guilty about my lack of empathy this time. I get that there was a psychological aspect to Cynthia, but she just went through her emotions too quickly for me to be able to follow her. There wasn't enough time for me to see where she was going--or where she was coming from--before she was on to the next step.

I was completely shocked when Cynthia told Jack that she was Alex's mother. In the scene with the two of them together where he suggests that they run away together (with dialog so forced that I could hardly stand it) I got the distinct impression that there was a sexual attraction rather than maternal love on her side. (That's one of the things I guess I might see differently if I watch the episode again. It's very possible that I just saw that because that was what the plot suggested to me.)

Before Jack disappeared, I thought the bet on how he would do was funny, but in light of the whole episode, it was a waste of time, and very cheap comic relief, something they wouldn't have needed if they had done the rest of the story properly.

The ending was the final nail in the coffin for me. When Jack showed up with a few band-aids slapped on and then walked around talking to everybody like he was fine, the few things I did enjoy about the episode stopped counting at all. That was just taking the suspension of disbelief TOO far. Never mind the fact that he just pulled his hand through a nail for no reason at all other than it looked really macho or whatever, but he also had a chest wound that was several inches deep. If that had happened to any of the others, they would've been passed out on a gurney while Jack saved the day. Which is essentially why I don't like Jack.

But, yeah, there were a few things that I like, and while they don't make up for the other stuff by a long shot, I do remember them:

I liked the scene with Viv, Jack and Martin, or, well, I liked Viv and Martin in that scene.

The big shocker for me: In this episode, Sam was actually the part of it I liked the best. The last time that happened was when she confronted Martin about his addiction; this season I've actually DISliked her a lot of the time, mostly because of her appearance. Her threatening the guy at the poker club was ALMOST believable to me, which, for Sam this season, is quite well done. And I liked that she bet on Jack winning. I buy her explanation, and don't think it has anything to do with her pining away over Jack at all, and I thought it was both amusing and pretty clever.


Phew. I already ranted about the episode on livejournal, so I thought posting here would be safe, but I guess I can just go on and on...

[Eskimo Jo]

For me, the chemistry between Jack and Cynthia had little to do with the overtly sexual tone of the writing/direction and more about the way the actors played off each other. And in comparision to mousy Anne, Cynthia was a cougar. Rawr. Crazy, yes. But good chemistry, yes I think so too. A good rapport, at least.

But I agree the writing was just.....awful for the most part. I found it WAY too unrealistic and FAR too much like it was hacked from various other shows and then pieced back together in a very unsatisfying way. I just...... It was bad.

And I didn't like the tech girl. She was the only weak link in the acting department. I felt all of the actors did particuarly well given the script, even Elena (for what little I remember of her). But the tech girl...euch.

As for the non-existent Sam-pining-over-Jack thing. Meh. I didn't see it that way either. I think her exasperation in the bar scene was fully understandable. I think it was shitty writing and too cliched, but I could see any other character pulling that. It just happened to be Sam for whatever reason. It just gets people in a tizzy... And plus, Sam's the most likely character to get overly emotional. I think something people overlook is how intense Elena was in going in to get Jack. She broke major protocol to go in without backup. She was pretty fixed on getting Jack out ASAP, with little regard to her personal safety.

So, is Elena in love with Jack too? Oo, we could do season 3 all over again! It can be the Danny-Elena-Jack triangle this time!!!

And the bit at the end, meh again. I think it was cute that someone was right. I think it once again makes sense for Sam to think that about Jack that way. She ADMIRES him. That much is fine. I don't think it was particularly a romantic thing. It was relief and admiration... Seriously, that doesn't mean you're in love with someone.....

Or else I'd be in serious trouble with the sheer mass of people I'm in love with. Hell, I'd even be in love with animals, plants, bodies of water, charity organizations, artists, pieces of music...... You get the picture. There are different ways to "love" someone.

I don't think because Sam bet on Jack means she wants to have sex with him. Come on.

I think part of the reason I didn't see anything is because the writing on the whole was so shoddy that it really doesn't inspire any fear or hesitation about the potential of J/S. Blah.

Jack really pissed me off in this episode as well though. Not so much with the Jack-love here. It was far too unrealistic and I despised the nail-hand pulling out thing. I know why it was included (shock value). But I didn't go "AAAHHH SHITT!! OWWWWW!" and cringe for him. I merely sat and went, "Too graphic. No thanks. Too unnecessary." When stupid things happen on TV, it totally draws me out of the story.

Which happened with most of this episode actually.......

[mariepaule]

The reason I'm wondering where the J/S relationship is going is not specifically because of what happened in this episode. It's because they seem to have a "special moment" almost EVERY episode. I see a pattern there. But I guess we'll see.

I so agree about the writing. Are the season 1 and 2 writers ALL gone?

[Shirley Parker]

I have to admit, I didn't see the episode so I have no idea how Sam reacted. But people see what they want to see, I guess. If I quote the things I read time from time on fandoms when the reality is so ridiculous simple, you guys wouldn't believe it. Sometimes people can really confuse care to love.

[Dricks]

Okay I just saw the episode (yeah, just now) and I felt sorry for Jack ... poor guy, he has pretty harmed. But that´s it. I confess I was a little worried cause I passed my eyes over your comments and what I saw was "oh my we had a JS moment, Sam was desperate over Jack" and stuff like that, so I was waiting for the moment I´d like to press the stop buttom ... well, where was that moment? I think I might have blink at it ... or did we saw the same episode?

Oh my ... what was that Martin smile ? How I missed it!

Everybody betting on how much money Jack´d lost .. ahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahauhuahuah

It was a good episode.

ETA (after read all the posts, in no particular order)
1) JS special moments in each episodes? where
2) Sam holding a gun to the neck on the club´s guy: I bet anyone on the team will do that way; yeah, it was their boss, and their friend.
3) I thought Jack would need a more intensive medical attention after the whole thing too. After all, his hand and chest were pinned by (not so clean, maybe) nails and .. hello, infection? Anyway, maybe TPTB want to tell us he´s Superman´s family? ehehehhehe
4) ALP played magnificent those scenes where Jack was in pain, after the nails (did I wrote this right?) and the freeing-hand thing.

[annie2000]

now thinking, Anne should be in that episode, she probably was not because they wanted to show Sam as the only female worried about him - Viv is female and worried, but she's the Best Friend type, and Elena, well... she's Elena, if you know what I mean...

just thinking... what if Martin was the one undercover? The 'I know what's like to fall for someone you work with' would have WHOLE different meaning.
... and he would last two minutes with Cynthia. Don't get me wrong, he's tough, but... he's Marty, he's more rational than Jack... keep waiting for the second nail was NOT AT ALL rational.

one more thing: always thought the grand finalle would have missing Jack - ya know, the final episode, big boss goes missing and we don't know if he'll survive or not. Begining of season episodes need ALP alive.


kisses

[Dricks]

If Anne was in it, she´d probably pass out of nervous and poor baby! eheheheh
I still can´t see what was the big "thing" b/t Jack and Sam in this episode ...

BTW, this was the 100th episode? I think the previous one would be a better '100th episode' than this one.

[copycat]

dricks said:

BTW, this was the 100th episode? I think the previous one would be a better '100th episode' than this one.

Wasn't the 100th episode the one with Eriq La Salle? The Katrina one. I think so.

one more thing: always thought the grand finalle would have missing Jack - ya know, the final episode, big boss goes missing and we don't know if he'll survive or not.

That would have worked SO much better for me, annie2000. That way they wouldn't have had to hurry through the story like they did, and it really is a good cliffhanger. I'm not saying I would necessarily love it, but that's because I don't like Jack, so it would be hard for me to care what happened to him, but I think I would have liked the storyline much better that way. We could've gotten more reactions from the other team members and had them worry about him for a while, and talk to each other about how worried they were. Yeah, I think that would have been really good. Too bad they didn't go that way.

[annie2000]

oh, well, they can always kidnap the WHOLE TEAM, or Jack's daughters for the finalle...

[Muzzy_Olorea]

Okay, wow, well, good episode. I liked the twist about Cynthia being Alex's Mum and also the great interaction between Cynthia/Jack. The whole Jack/Samantha thing? If they really are going down that road again it's coming bang out of nowhere and .... ARGH!

This would have been an excellent season finale plot/action wise.

Oh and another thing ........ Anne should have been the one who came to see him right at the end as she would have obviously heard through the grapevine what had happened to Jack and this would have been a good way to bring their relationship out into the open.

Edit to add:Oh and another thing ........ Jack's torture scene reminded me a lot of Casino Royale for some reason. Lol.

[Broni]

All throughout the eppy, the only thing that bugged me was trying to place where I'd seen Susanna Thompson (Cynthia) before But I have to admit, it was a good eppy for me over all! (It was only on here last Wednesday so that's why I'm ridiculously late)

I thought the MP was seriously hot so having eye candy isn't all that bad to start off with, and then them teasing Martin about his poker playing skills was just so great. I thought Anthony's performance in the entire episode was fabulous! I really felt like they shot him with nails to get him into character He was still drugged and scared and in A LOT of pain, it seemed like he was really in the zone with that one.

I also have to admit I loved Samantha at the poker club, getting all angry with that security guard and threatening him and getting angry. It's good to see some emotion come out of her! Sometimes she's just too bland, ya know? But to see her really get angry and shoving a gun in some guys jugular (spl?) was a highlight. Oh and Elena and her betting pool was a great idea, very light-hearted and something the show seems to be missing lately!

All in all I have to say it was a pretty good eppy! Tho it was Jack-centered in some parts, everyone was involved and had their small parts to play and I loved that.


Edit to say: I don't know why people saw JSness in this eppy, I didn't see any of that to be honest. And the chemistry between Susanna and Anthony played really well, I thought it was a good job done by all But in another light I do agree with most of you that having this as a finale would have been better, as they would likely have more time to go in depth with the characters and draw-out the fact Jack was missing, and I was disappointed that the team didn't seem overly concerned that Jack was in trouble! They didn't hustle and bustle around frantically like I thought they would... tho that's probably a good thing for us, over-acting sucks