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Post by Broni on Oct 12, 2004 22:56:55 GMT -5
I didn't read it, but thinking back to AYNOHYEB I just remember how they bought JS's relationship into it and since it looks like Maria has suspected Jack of cheating, I have a feeling she will bring it up in the custody battle. Poor Jack. But truthfully, he did bring it on himself. And poor Sam too. This is definitely going to be an interesting season 3, that's for sure. I only hope things work out for MS, either as a couple or as friends. Alienating co-workers in the workplace is a bitch. But so far, things look okay  |
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Post by Eskimo Jo on Oct 13, 2004 11:26:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't feel sorry for Jack at all. I feel bad for myself tho lol. Cos I dislike the way that J/S shippers seem to hate Martin (in my opinion for NO reason). I'm an M/S shipper and am almost at the hate point for Jack. Which makes me sad cos I didn't want my dislike of Jack to be the reason I don't liek J/S. Up until, i'd say, the last episode, I was indifferent about Jack....but eugh,... I hated the fact he cheated on his wife, it didn't matter if it was with Sam or anyone else. Like in Fallout when Barry said something along the lines of "you can't even figure out how to love your wife, the mother of your children!" But Jack was Jack. A good fair agent... but taking Viv's job. That was low. I'd have to blame teh writers for such a ludicris(sp) plot device... That just made me lose ALL sympathy for him. but it's more fun to blame the characters. although Sam is an adult, i do feel more sympathy for her being dragged into the whole thing. she madea choice knowing jack was married but she was a lot younger and much more vunerable to her odler boss. it's a tough situation for young women....espcially in such a male dominated environment. but finally sam is going to have to own up to what she did and take the consequences...and i think after she sees the effect that her and jack's actions had on his kids and life, she may think twice before starting anything up again. as blindingly optimistic as it seems, i hope MS stay together... as long asthe writers don't totally screw over the relationship as another convienent, cliched plot device. i'm just tired of everyone being so damn unhappy on tv. let MS be happy! hehehe |
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Post by Dana Doggett on Oct 13, 2004 14:19:37 GMT -5
I feel bad for myself tho lol. Cos I dislike the way that J/S shippers seem to hate Martin (in my opinion for NO reason). I'm an M/S shipper and am almost at the hate point for Jack. Which makes me sad cos I didn't want my dislike of Jack to be the reason I don't liek J/S. Up until, i'd say, the last episode, I was indifferent about Jack....but eugh,... Oh no... don't you hate when that happens? One relationship group makes you start disliking a character that you really do not want to dislike. That's happened to me before, thankfully not with WaT I still love Jack despite his flaws. I was a little shocked when we first found out that Jack cheated on his wife, but I understand that not everyone is perfect. I think it's an interesting character trait to work with on the show. Didn't matter to me who he had the affair with and I think it says a little about who Sam is too. I'm still trying to understand why she would get involved with a married man. There was one episode (in season 2 I think) where she said that the affair/relationship between her and Jack was what they both needed at the time. I want to know what drove her into his arms. *sighs* Even though that would mean revisiting the J/S relationship - so long as it's in the past I'm ok with it, now if they do a J/S thing in the present... I'll probably have some major problems with it. I do trust the writers/creator to do interesting things with the characters so I'm not going to worry about it. I've liked everything that has been written into these characters since the Pilot episode. You have to remember that Jack said he wouldn't mind taking a position of lower rank. He wasn't necessarily going after his old position again. I think he even said that he would be all right with working under Viv'. He didn't purposely take the position away from her because he wanted to, and the FBI wouldn't allow him to talk to her about it. Instead they had the Director take care of it for him. Do we know what time Sam and Jack were in a relationship and how long they had split by the time of the Pilot episode? I'm so uninformed of the JSR timeline. I don't think her getting involved with Jack is a matter of her vulnerability or his position of authority over her. I think feelings probably developed under such a stressful work environment and it built from there. I hope that Sam has learned a lesson from all that is going on (especially once she finds out what Jack is going through with his wife and kids). I agree. I think that Sam could really 'grow up' and learn from a mature relationship with Martin ITA Happy is nice to watch every so often too. ~Cassie |
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Post by Eskimo Jo on Oct 13, 2004 15:43:50 GMT -5
You have to remember that Jack said he wouldn't mind taking a position of lower rank. He wasn't necessarily going after his old position again. I think he even said that he would be all right with working under Viv'. He didn't purposely take the position away from her because he wanted to, and the FBI wouldn't allow him to talk to her about it. Instead they had the Director take care of it for him. And this is why I dislike the writing. He technically was told that he either took the boss position or nothing. Which is completely unrealistic. He was transferred to chicago to take normal field agent job, juat martin sam etc etc. the bullcrap about "so much competition" from the assistant director for the lower positions was just stupid. if there was so much competition, why hadn't they already filled Viv's spot? Meh. Poor writing. They needed some excuse to FORCE Jack into being boss. IMO, if jack was so dedicated to his kids, he would have gone to chicago regardless of whether he lived with his wife or not. the job is Chicago is less stressful and allows for more time to spend with them. Plus, he could help them adjust to their new home. HOnestly, no court is going to give him custody. His wife rakes in half a mill a year, is stable, presumbly spends much more time with the kids and has never commited adultery (that we know of). It doesn't look good that Jack doesn't even want to give up his job in New York to help his kids settle into Chicago. And we all know why Jack doen't want to leave NY...It starts with an "s" and ends with "amantha". Which is sad. eugh...i have a hard time overlooking cheating on spouses easily...and..meh. once a cheater, always a cheater (in my experience anyways). Jack could easily have said, "Well i'm working in Viv's spot now, why can't i just stay like that?" There is no way the FBI would FORCE him to be boss, especially with such a racially senstitive issue. They would be glad just to have him on the team again. And Jack... since when has Jack ever listened to his bosses? lol. The Jack from first season would have told teh director he wasn't going to say anything, and then told Viv face to face anyway. Jack has nothing going for him staying in NY other than earning more money. BUt that also means less time at home. He works DAYS at a time...I feel really sorry for his kids if he got custody. But of course, he's the main character so they can't have it be realistic....  Yep. They were involved. It doesn't say for how long tho. It was all very..."discreet" heh heh. It was over before Martin arrived, as she tells him at the end of last season. It officially ends I think in AYNOHYEB...well, not ends so much as Sam gets closure. See, I think Sam has some serious issues which make her vulnerable...Not in the sense of "OMG, my boss wants to sleep with me and maybe i'll be more repsected if i do...." kinda thing. She's smarter than that. But she definately has some other serious issues with relationships and such as you can see by the very puzzling glimpses into her character in Moving On, Maple Street, and other eps. She's kinda weird.... She seems particulary suseptible to certain types of men. I think it's more Jack's age and nature than his rank over her that attracted her. He's very protective of her. From most of what I can tell, it doesn't seem like she had a father growing up....I'm not saying it's some freudian daddy-complex....but there's something in Sam's mind that made her do it, i tihnk, other than just working side by side.... She's a lot more complex than maybe all of the other characters... Mostly cos we've got so little information about her mind and past. it would be interesting if she was the one who pursued Jack and tempted him into an affair. I've always pictured it the other way around but it would be really interesting if SHE had gone after him....It would make her even more confusing....and I bet guilty as hell when she finds out eaxctly what's going on lol.. But I hope she learns her lesson too. Don't get involved with married men. Period. lol. YES  !!! Hopefully! |
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Post by Dana Doggett on Oct 14, 2004 12:48:19 GMT -5
And this is why I dislike the writing. He technically was told that he either took the boss position or nothing. Which is completely unrealistic. He was transferred to chicago to take normal field agent job, juat martin sam etc etc. the bullcrap about "so much competition" from the assistant director for the lower positions was just stupid. if there was so much competition, why hadn't they already filled Viv's spot? Meh. Poor writing. They needed some excuse to FORCE Jack into being boss. That's a very good point. Why would they force him back into the supervisory position when it was already filled and he was stating that he would work at a lower rank? Maybe the head honchos have something up their sleeve. It did seem like (in season 1) that D.C. was out to get him - Victor especially - and then the whole OPR investigation in AYNOHYEB. Maybe it's a plot to screw Jack over on the half of the FBI. Scandals? That could be interesting. I wondered the same thing. Why can't he go to Chicago to be close to them? He has his transfer. I don't see him getting custody either - there's too much working against him - even if he didn't have his little affair with Sam. His job is high risk compared to his wife's job. If he got custody and smthg happened to him... well I think the court will consider this when deciding over who should have custody over his kids. I really hope that is not the reason why he wants to stay in New York. Oh I hope that is not the reason. Jack shouldn't even be thinking of her in a time like this. And I agree, once a cheater, always a cheater. Sam deserves better. Maybe Jack has 'grown up' since Season 1 and has decided to play more by the book now than he has in the past...? Maybe I should stop trying to make excuses for him LOL I do hope that Viv' isn't too hurt by this. I loved her as the new boss. True. Oh so very true. I figured it was over between them before Martin arrived. I'm wondering how long did it last? How serious was it? Did they actually love each other or did they convince themselves that they were in love because it was 'what they needed at the time'? I agree. The way Sam responds to some cases and people makes me worry about what she's been through in her past. I hope we get to see some of it during this season. I first thought that maybe she is a victim/survivor of some kind of sexual abuse - of course that is because I was doing research on rape and rape survivors and that topic is stuck in my head. It's also not like her to get involved with abusive (physically or emotionally) men. A friend of mine is a rape survivor and she still has problems getting involved with bad men. In the research I did on the topic, I found that sometimes (not all the time) rape victims tend to get themselves mixed up in relationships that mirror the abusive relationship they had been in (most rapes happen between two people that know each other btw). I hope that this is not the case for Samantha. I think you are right that it has smthg to do with lacking a father growing up. Here! Here! ~Cassie |
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Post by Cindy on Jun 2, 2005 23:18:57 GMT -5
Well, I finally got a chance to watch this eppie tonight! And I must say... I DISLIKE Jack even more! Some friend he was... First he suggested Viv to take his position, but once the whole Chicago thing didn't work out, he takes back his old job! Stupid jerk. It's not wonder why Viv holds a grudge on him later! Like u all have stated before... If he was so dedicated to his kids, he could have gone to Chicago and BE there for them, instead of staying back... Argh! On another note... I love all the M/S moments... Martin was so sweet... and he looked so adorable there... and the look he threw Sam at the clinic... Hehe...  |
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Post by Jennifoofighter on Jun 2, 2005 23:32:18 GMT -5
Tell me about it. Frankly I think it was selfish for him to even consider seeking full custody much less have them move back to live in NY. I think Maria's lawyer made that abundantly clear in "Malone vs. Malone". I know that they tried to villafy Maria in that ep but if you ask me, it came down to hell hath no fury like a woman scorned Yes, I get it that his dad lives in NY but frankly, he should have taken the other job - it might have given him more time to spend with his girls and his dad.
But then, if I had my druthers the whole show would have gone another route. Since Jack is integral to the show - yes, he is - the writers should have had him come back but kept Viv in the higher position. The dynamics would have been really interesting to watch. Then they still could have given Viv her heart thing and she would have been more agreeable to putting Jack in charge again. And we all know how I think they seriously f****d us on the MS storyline. Grr....no, I'm not bitter.
But I gotta say, after rewatching this episode, it was really good. The casefile, the MS moments, Viv and Jack's power struggle, and even Danny got to have some interesting things going on. Thumbs up!
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Post by sammy on Jun 3, 2005 9:44:16 GMT -5
Yeah I totally agree jenni. This was a fabulous episode, at least as far as season 3 is concerned. I really enjoyed rewatching it yesterday, and noticing the M/S moments more than I did the first time.
You guys all are so right about Jack. It's an argument I've had several times with J/S shippers before who say ' but they love each other'. Yeah, well love is no excuse to ruin a bunch of people's lives : Maria, Hannah, Kate, Jack, Sam, Martin, Vivian... you get the picture. The only one seemingly not affected in any way is Danny. Lucky guy.
Jack and Sam should never have had the affair. Granted they are both to blame, but I blame Jack more. He was older, married, and her senior agent. Even if she came on to him, he should have turned away from it.
And, if we grant the J/Sers their thing, 'they're in love', then Jack should have ended his marriage first before ever getting involved with Sam. It's only the courteous thing to do to his wife and family! Not that he really cares about them at all, which is obvious, he is just retaliating against Maria by trying to get custody of them.
I've seen that happen in real life and it's just sad what it does to the kids.
Well, guess I got a bit off topic there, but I was reading Eskimo Jo's stuff earlier in the thread and just had to comment. I missed it the first time around, as I hadn't found this board then.
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!!! Hopefully!
