the real samantha

[alias24]

so as im reading the stories I notice a similar themes running through a lot of them. That sam is not a very happy person and is very disconnected from her family and very lonely while martin is like a family man and very well rounded person. Dont get me wrong I love love love all these stories and cant get enough. but i was just wondering why people think that. i totally had a different idea of her. If you pay close attention to all the eps from season 1 to now you will notice that Sam seems pretty happy for the most part. She's professional but amiable and very social and forward. we dont really know anything about her family life or what it consists of. Martin always struck me as the lonely one. Who had to live up to his fathers aspirations for him, and the fact that he transferred from the west coast to nyc. I always thought of Martin needing sam more than she needed him. remember she never questioned why he broke up with her really. So i was wondering maybe I missed something in the episodes or this is the way poeple like to think about them. I would love to know what people think.

[Celine]

I'm not sure that Sam isn't a very happy person and disconnected and that on the other hand Martin is a very well rounded person.
I usually see Samantha like a woman who lakes trust in herself when it comes to intimacy. You said that she never questioned why Martin broke their relationship but I think that she knew why and had no need to ask. In fact, I think she feels responsible and even guilty about the break-up because she feels she never really let Martin open the door to her heart.

About Sam's past, I remember that in the first season she said to Jack that at 17 she ran away from her home for a few hours. And in the 2nd season (Doopelganger P1 if I remember correctly) she said that she had no more relations with her sister. In "Nickel and dimed" we can see Samantha calling her mother, and this is something she hadn't done in a long time.

I also always wondered if Sam didn't have a back-story with abortion or child's abondonment since she usually seems really touched by this subjects.

To my opinion, Martin and Sam are both lonely people, in a different way probably but I think Martin needs Sam as much as Sam needs Martin.

[Bicoco]

celine09 said:

To my opinion, Martin and Sam are both lonely people, in a different way probably but I think Martin needs Sam as much as Sam needs Martin.

I agree with that, but I think she doesn't know that yet. She's a very independent woman and she doesn't want to depend on people. The fact that she may need Martin is a very scary thought for her. Hopefully she will learn that it's natural to depend on others in this season

[alias24]

Yea I guess you guys are right! :-)

[tracetracker]

I'm glad you have asked a question. We don't frequently discuss things on the board. People tend to comment but not really have a discussion.

I like to do that sort of thing so I'm going to jump in here with an opinion.

Sam is a strong and independent woman. But I do think she has major issues with letting people get close to her. We don't really have a lot of insight into the true relationship between Martin and Sam. We never really saw them dating or really even arguing except in a couple of episodes like where they were sitting on the front porch. At least that's all I remember. We just assume that they were together a lot but don't know much more.

We don't know a lot about Sam's childhood. We do know that she ran away and that her mother went after her. We saw that in the episode Nickeled and Dimed. We also saw her begging her mother to catch fireflies with her one night. Her mother was too tired and complained it was too late so we get the idea that her growing up experience was lonely and unfulfilling since her mother worked all the time. I think she was very dejected and angry as a child. When she called her mother on the phone she had not talked to to her in a longtime. This tells me that she did not have a good relationship with her family.

Her affair with Jack, who was her boss, was certainly not a good idea. This made it even more difficult for her to make her relationship with Martin public. We also have an indication that she had a fling with Keller. In my opinion she is searching for a meaningful relationship but has real difficulty allowing herself to be open and honest with the men she dates.

We do not know a lot about Martin either. We know that he does not get along with his father but know very little about his childhood. It is implied that he has money but that does not bring happiness. Our siblings mentioned in any episode? We talk about that in our fictions but I'm not sure it's ever been mentioned. We know very little about his mother. We do know about his aunt but most of what we talk about is simply part of our fictions.

I think that he and Sam are cut from the same emotional cloth. Both of them have real problems with communication when it comes to a relationship. I get the feeling that they never really talked to each other. Both need each other and want someone to truly love them but don't know how to find that.

I always wondered if her statement at the abortion clinic was about her or just a part of her cover story. If it is true then she might have real issues of guilt or a boyfriend background we know nothing about. I don't get the idea that she was married before but some talk about that in fictions. Do we know that?

I guess I have babbled enough. Thanks for asking a question which might generate a discussion. We should do more of this. We all like to babble. ;D

[alias24]

Well thanks for those comments i appreciate it! Things like this tend to jump into my head as I am watching the show or reading the stories. I always wonder that some of the things she does say on the show may just be for the sake of the case and not really true, like the comment about her and her sister (doppelganger?). But she does have the ability to really feel for the missing people especially if they are young women who are struggling in their current life.

[andij44]

I think Sam puts up a facade of being very strong and independent, which I she is at times, but deep down, is still a very lonely girl seeking love. You can tell she's had less than happy past relationships, and isn't necessarily cold, she just blocks her heart because it's been broken before. I think she does have a major "daddy complex" in the sense that she never had a father figure or stong male in her life, so she is a bit confused on how to present her demeanor around them. I don't think she's that close with her family considering it had been the first time speaking with her mother in a long time in "Nickel and Dimed Pt. 2" and her sister hasn't really been mentioned often. I think she simply seeks love and affection, but won't admit it.

Martin is very lonely himself as well. I think growing up he stikes me as the guy that seems so content and perfect, but really deep down, he was pained and lonely. I think he puts up a wall of "happiness and optimism" and he also uses other friends and activities to release the lonliness. I think he seeks for someone to really connect with, not even date, just more like be able to talk to openly, and I think that's why he dumped Sam. He was upset she couldn't open up and talk to him. At the same time I think he may expect too much in relationships, as far as, he expected Sam to be as open as he always is.


Yeah, there's my opinion anyways. By the way, I like this topic!

[tracetracker]

I think that both of them are lonely as well. If you really look at the lives of the team they all are with the exception of maybe Viv.

Danny was abused and neglected. Sam has issues with men due to whatever reasons we have discussed. Martin had a family who loved him but didn't show it in ways that made him feel it. Jack has all sorts of issues which led to his divorce; workaholic, inability to be a proper parent, infidelity, loss of his mother, lack of a good father figure, etc. etc.

I suppose the writers give us these sorts of things to create the angst in the character that makes us want to know more. It makes us love them and want to help them or kick some sense into them.

We could go on for ever about some of the things we see and that makes us want to write about them. So we do. Then we watch the show to get deeper into the character.

They toss us a tidbit every now and then to keep us wondering and that mixed with great missing people cases makes for a #4 rating for the show.

[evancar]

I agree they are both loners, and about the family, it seems Samantha has not conection at all with hers , and martin, he strikes me as the “black sheep” of the family. lack of attention but also lack of support (he admitted that once)

They also have in common they don’t like to admit weakness but this is sth all members of the team share, specially when it comes to admit they’re not capable of doing their job in those cases they are going through some stuff. it’s just a question of pride.

what I think makes the difference, is the way they express their emotional self, that’s obvious. I don’t think martin has any problem with that. I believe he tried to communicate to Sam and was honest about his feelings ( he once said to Sam ‘you know how I feel) he cared for her and showed it naturally, with no repression.
But her, she had to put up some courage to articulate the words ‘I’m happy’.

He made a great effort to get to her , to draw some emotion from her and to get some answers, but crushed into a wall of indifference; from martin’s POV it has to be frustrating receive a cold response from someone you love.
She knows his feelings but he has no clue about hers. Non of us had a clue until this season, only hypothetical theories. that’s the big enigma actually. What she really feels, and why she acts like she acts. She’s the most hermetic character of all, and thats why she seems so independent, but deep inside, it feels like she needs to be loved as much as martin does.
we all know by now that she’s not indifferent at all and this is just a mask she puts up to hide herself from whatever she’s scared of.

by the way, she actually asked martin why he broke up 'you wanted me to fight harder, didn't you?'. I also agree she already new the reason-

Apart from that, they both have their issues, but I don’t believe they are unhappy characters (I only see grumpiness in Jack) . Mayb martin focus more in the positive things in life than Sam does, and that’s one of the reasons why a relationship with martin would b healthy for Sam.

I know all this may sound repetitive and I’m sorry, but you know what? For me its like therapy!

[alias24]

i love reading all these responses!!!

[poppyseed]

i pretty much agree with what everyone is saying so far. I have thought about the same thing (what i really think sam's like) and i think the only thing that i see as different from the common perception is that it's not that sam doesn't want kids, i think her comment in bus was more of a "the world is a scary/dangerous place," and "it would be hard to raise a kid these days b/c i'd be scared for them constantly" kind of comment than "i don't want children" kind of comment. That's all!

ps: i'm glad you broght this up alias24 b/c especially lately i have been thinking about it. (but not that it was bothering me or anything, i totally love the fanfics!)

[Ann415]

I don't get the idea that she was married before but some talk about that in fictions. Do we know that?

Yes she was married before. It was mentioned near the beginning of season 1. I belive it was 1x06--Silent Partner, the episode where Martin and Danny go to San Diego on the case where the guy was living a double life. (Although I'm not postive that was the episode). Sam and Vivian were talking and Sam was pretty indignant and makes a statement like "it's called a divorce" and really can't seem to believe they would continue being together if they were unhappy. Vivian asks Sam sort of sarcasitically when she had been married and Sam suprised her by telling her that she was married when she was 18. I think Sam said it only lasted like 5 months or something.

In fact that scene along with the scene at the abortion clinic where Sam says she has been pregnant before has always made me wonder why she was married or the real reason she got divorced. I always wondered if perhaps she got pregnant either right before or right after she was marrried and then had miscarriage and that after her miscarriage they just couldn't make it work, although that is pure speculation on my part.

Anyway, they both seem kind of lonely to me. I don't think either one of them got alot of attention as children (although for different reasons). Neither one of them are close to their parents it seems, although I get the impression that Sam has more issues with relationships than Martin does.

[Broni]

This is a really great topic to bring up!

I honestly don't know what to make of Samantha. She is smart and very determined. She seems incredibly lonely at times. That comment in 'The Bus' about the 2.2 and marriage thing, it just seems to me like she knows she won't be able to find that happiness and she doubts it's out there for her. It seems like her childhood wasn't too good; her mother sort of neglected her to make a living, and god knows where her sister and father were. But I just see her as a strong, independant woman (no I won't sing Destiny's Child, don't worry ).

Samantha has a lot of secrets and I only hope that we learn more about her. It seems that it takes a hell of a person to break through her hard exterior (Martin and Jack have it seems). To me she's just a very intriguing character. Thanks for bringing this up though, very interesting to read all of the other opinions

[sammy]

Tracetracker - Sam herself told Viv that she was married before when she was 18 and that it lasted only a few weeks. I can't remember the name of the ep but it was with the man who was married to two women one on each coast.

[Lu]

I tend to agree with a lot of people here, but i have varying thoughts on them both. I do think she had a rough upbringing. The arguments with her mother adn things like that are shown in Nickel and Dimed. But I am glad she called her mother at the end of it. She seems to lack security and confidence ion some areas, like relationships and love. I suppose it is possible that she has been burned in the past that has lead her to be like that. As for the pregnancy thing, i believe that it has happened adn sooner or later it will all come out. She was upset at the end of the Liana Sardo episode which I think had more behind it and was annoyed when the episode finished because we didn't get to find out why she was upset. Also her comment in the abortion clinic she said with emotion behind it and replied too quickly, not like someone who was making it up.

As for Martin, it seems he had everything he ever wanted growing up except the love of his father. he talks of spending a lot of time with the Tolands because his fatyher was away a lot. That I can believe but I think he lacks somethign because of it.


Okay so maybe I have rambled a lotand will stop now. maybe my theories are right but then again they are probably just all in my imagination.